Curse

Bled4dayz · Sep 22, 2010, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I recently decided to work towards rank 2 drunkard so I've been trying to play around with a few skills off PvX Racway build and I was wondering if anyone had any modifications they would like to share?

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Racway

I currently use..

Main
Swift Java
Spear of Lightning
Go for the Eyes
SY
TNTF
Find Their Weakness
Focused Anger
Drunken Master...since I'm always drunk 33%ias

Morgahn
Same build off PvX just switched Vicious Attack with Spear of Lightning

Hayda
Switched Vicious Attack with Spear of Lightning
Mending Refrain with Chorus of Restoration, since I didn't see her use Mending Refrain at all.

Vekk
Same building off PvX

Feel free to leave comments or PM me in game

Ur Nothing To Fear

EssayReader · Sep 22, 2010, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Actually, the hero does use Mending Refrain, but it doesn't seem like they use it simply because it's an Echo, so it gets applied and all they do is cast shouts to keep it on you.

As for me, I'm a caster so I use a healing + Expel Hexes bar in there with a SoS ritualist.

chullster · Sep 22, 2010, 08:28 AM // 08:28

You might want to put anthem of flame on a hero bar somewhere, it got its AI reworked with the WiK update. Heroes now use it on recharge to maintain refrains, so the human no longer has to worry about their upkeep.

Tender Care · Sep 22, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Well.....i always play with Morgahn and Hayda (the finished UW and FoW with some other paras)

Best Team build you can use (really) is this:

Imba player:
Focused Anger,
Burning refrain
Spear of lightning
Go for the eyes
Find their weakness
Spear of fury
Save Yourself
There's nothing to fear

Morgahn para/ipno

They are on fire, Song of restoration, Chorus of restoration (E), hex eater signet, finale of restoration, signet of synergy, blazing spear, signet of return.

Hayda para/any hybrid command/resto

Burning finale, anthem of weariness, spear of redemption, go for the eyes, Anthem of fury (E), chorus of restoration, stand your ground, signet of return

Olias/Livia/Master of Whispers 14 blood/ necro/monk

Order of the Vampire(E), mark of fury, blood bond, Life siphon, signet of lost souls, remove hex, foul feast, Mark of pain.

With these 3 dudes i can clean the UW chamber with no problems for example....Order of the Vampire it's an amazing even if sacrifice 17% each time.

Enjoy!

Khomet Si Netjer · Sep 24, 2010, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I used a team similar to racway for a while... it works but it lacks AoE damage so it can be relatively slow compared to other teams. I decided to replace the Orders dervish with a SoS rit that has splinter weapon and possibly orders as well. Splinter does quite a lot more than Orders imo, but it doesn't hurt to have both. Also I gave shortbows to one or both of the paragons, this helps their adrenaline gain and allows them to get a lot more out of splinter weapon and orders. Paragons need some buffs but I think this is about the best that can be done with a paragon team at present.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Kway

Daesu · Oct 01, 2010, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Care

Well.....i always play with Morgahn and Hayda (the finished UW and FoW with some other paras)

Best Team build you can use (really) is this:

Imba player:
Focused Anger,
Burning refrain
Spear of lightning
Go for the eyes
Find their weakness
Spear of fury
Save Yourself
There's nothing to fear

Morgahn para/ipno

They are on fire, Song of restoration, Chorus of restoration (E), hex eater signet, finale of restoration, signet of synergy, blazing spear, signet of return.

Hayda para/any hybrid command/resto

Burning finale, anthem of weariness, spear of redemption, go for the eyes, Anthem of fury (E), chorus of restoration, stand your ground, signet of return

Olias/Livia/Master of Whispers 14 blood/ necro/monk

Order of the Vampire(E), mark of fury, blood bond, Life siphon, signet of lost souls, remove hex, foul feast, Mark of pain.

With these 3 dudes i can clean the UW chamber with no problems for example....Order of the Vampire it's an amazing even if sacrifice 17% each time.

Enjoy!

That is a pretty amazing build....

aspi · Oct 19, 2010, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I used a team similar to racway for a while... it works but it lacks AoE damage so it can be relatively slow compared to other teams. I decided to replace the Orders dervish with a SoS rit that has splinter weapon and possibly orders as well. Splinter does quite a lot more than Orders imo, but it doesn't hurt to have both. Also I gave shortbows to one or both of the paragons, this helps their adrenaline gain and allows them to get a lot more out of splinter weapon and orders. Paragons need some buffs but I think this is about the best that can be done with a paragon team at present.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Kway

Gonna try this build when the 7 heroes party comes out. I am not very effective with my para but it could be I just dont understand it good enough. For me it's quite different from the other professions. Thanks.

arturfel · Nov 24, 2010, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Parapetbuild - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...tml?t=10319501

This is an build for a team of paragon players - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...tml?t=10338154

i thought i posted my racway build, anyway, i use an very offensive build for the heros, crueal spear, go for the eyes and agressive refrain. I dont like athens and other stuff because u have to stop attacking to cast thoses things. the heros have fall back to speed up runings and recharge refrain and power return to rupt sometime something. The nec got orders, dark fury and the other order thats give damage. splinter weapon and the both regen wells (elite one included). The team dont have a lot of utility skills, but they got one of the biggest DPS for an racway team. Later ill search and post the build

Seey!

BrettM · Dec 10, 2010, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Kway

Interesting build, and I look forward to trying it. One question, though: what does the hex-eater para do for a shield given no points in either Command or Motivation? (It has always puzzled me that warriors have shields tied to their primary attribute, but paras do not.)

Lanier · Dec 10, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Kway

Thats... uh... interesting alright. I honestly don't know why you would use bows over spears. I too would use an SoS with splinter as my third hero but I would probably stick to rac's paragon hero setups. Panic also seems kinda... random on a paragon. Seems like it would be far better on a mesmer.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 10, 2010, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Interesting build, and I look forward to trying it. One question, though: what does the hex-eater para do for a shield given no points in either Command or Motivation? (It has always puzzled me that warriors have shields tied to their primary attribute, but paras do not.)

The other paragons don't really need a shield since they have +100 armor and/or TNTF on them. I chose to use the attribute points elsewhere.

If you know you are going into a zone with no hexes (or no important ones) you can set up the hex eater paragon for Motivation (Song of Purification, etc) or more damage (Stunning Strike, etc)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Thats... uh... interesting alright. I honestly don't know why you would use bows over spears. I too would use an SoS with splinter as my third hero but I would probably stick to rac's paragon hero setups. Panic also seems kinda... random on a paragon. Seems like it would be far better on a mesmer.

Panic is better on a mesmer but a primary mesmer doesn't have spear damage, and this does. Besides we have already made the assumption that the team is all paragons and one additional hero for the last slot.

re: bows, if you have ever run Splinter Barrage on a ranger you'd know why that paragon has a bow and not a spear... same base damage, slightly slower attack speed but MUCH more damage and adrenaline if you can hit multiple foes at once with Volley or Barrage... and that isn't too difficult. Try it and you'll see. You can also put Rapid Fire on that paragon for permanent +33% IAS with no armor penalty.

Haggis of Doom · Dec 12, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

re: bows, if you have ever run Splinter Barrage on a ranger you'd know why that paragon has a bow and not a spear... same base damage, slightly slower attack speed but MUCH more damage and adrenaline if you can hit multiple foes at once with Volley or Barrage... and that isn't too difficult. Try it and you'll see. You can also put Rapid Fire on that paragon for permanent +33% IAS with no armor penalty.

Volley removes preps, so Rapid Fire is out.

A Splinter Barrage ranger can be good in a player's hands, in the right area with the right aggro techniques. A Splinter Volley hero... not so much. And a Splinter Volley para? Also, why doesn't the Hexbreaker para use Volley too?

Imho, if you want more AoE damage, you're much better off specing Death Magic on the Rit and having the 2 minion bombing skills, maybe even going N/Rt since Soul Reaping is that much more badass than Boon of Creation. Ancestor's Rage is also much better than Painful Bond, simply because heroes use it better. Heroes cast AR when there's an ally with multiple foes in adjacent range, which happens often if you have any form of frontline, including minions, in your party. Heroes cast Painful Bond when foes get to In The Area range of themselves, which doesn't happen nearly as often.

Overall, this team build is really awkward regarding the use of the secondary profession. But since you wanted an all para team, that's to be expected I guess (though I still think the ranger bit is too much). Also, way too much defense: you're an imba! Slap on some Anthem of Envy, at the very least (it affects even your Rit's spirits, no reason not to have it with 2 para heroes), and get rid of those rezzes, henchies suck but they excel at rezzing

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 12, 2010, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Volley removes preps, so Rapid Fire is out.

A Splinter Barrage ranger can be good in a player's hands, in the right area with the right aggro techniques. A Splinter Volley hero... not so much. And a Splinter Volley para? Also, why doesn't the Hexbreaker para use Volley too?

Good point about Rapid Fire, I'm not sure what I was thinking when I posted that. Notice that the 'official' build uses aggressive refrain.

re: hexbreaker para, she does not use volley because she can't be P/Me/R at the same time... if you don't need the additional hex removal I'd make this paragon P/R as well and go for damage.

There seems to be some resistance to this idea of paragons using bows instead of spears... let me explain my reasoning with math, perhaps it will make more sense that way.

base damage of spear: 14-27
base damage of bow: 15-28

attack rate of spear: 1.5s (1.1s with aggressive refrain)
attack rate of bow: 2.0s (1.5s with aggressive refrain)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Attack_rate

damage from spear hit: 14-27 + skill damage + buff damage
damage from volley: (15-28 + skill damage + buff damage) x 4

the bow has a slower attack speed, and this will mean less damage over time if all we do is auto-attack. however, the bow gives us multi-attack skills such as Barrage and Volley so we can potentially deliver four hits in a bit more time than the paragon takes to deliver one hit. This could be up to 4x greater DPS than the spear assuming that we can hit multiple targets, and we also deliver multiple hits from Splinter Weapon and multiply the effects from other buffs such as Orders and Ebon Battle Standard of Honor.

one might also think that spears would be better because the paragon can have runes to increase spear mastery higher than 12. While that is true, it does not have that much effect on damage, since a majority of the damage delivered is based on buffs like Orders, EBSoH and Splinter Weapon rather than the base damage of the spear or bow. if the spear had multi-attack skills it would be more attractive, but until then I think the bow is the best alternative.

Quote:

Imho, if you want more AoE damage, you're much better off specing Death Magic on the Rit and having the 2 minion bombing skills, maybe even going N/Rt since Soul Reaping is that much more badass than Boon of Creation. Ancestor's Rage is also much better than Painful Bond, simply because heroes use it better. Heroes cast AR when there's an ally with multiple foes in adjacent range, which happens often if you have any form of frontline, including minions, in your party. Heroes cast Painful Bond when foes get to In The Area range of themselves, which doesn't happen nearly as often.

Ancestor's Rage is useless for this team because we don't have melee or minions...

Splinter Weapon @ 14 channeling is quite a lot more damage than Splinter @ 10 which is what a necromancer will be doing. I guess the fundamental issue is whether you want your damage to depend on what your team does (throwing spears, launching arrows) vs. what the enemy does (attacking minions and triggering death nova) Soul Reaping is excellent of course but I find that the ritualist has plenty of energy for what he's doing, and being primary ritualist means higher channeling which means more damage.

Quote:

Overall, this team build is really awkward regarding the use of the secondary profession. But since you wanted an all para team, that's to be expected I guess (though I still think the ranger bit is too much). Also, way too much defense: you're an imba! Slap on some Anthem of Envy, at the very least (it affects even your Rit's spirits, no reason not to have it with 2 para heroes), and get rid of those rezzes, henchies suck but they excel at rezzing

As stated in the build description, I played something similar to Racway for a long time and vanquished everywhere with it; I used to be in Racthoh's alliance and hung out with him. Racway does not have enough damage for my liking so I started buliding my own with more AoE effects like volley and splinter weapon. These are certainly not the only ways to get AoE damage but I think it's the best way for paragons to get it. If you want to hide behind minion walls there are plenty of team builds for that.

re: anthem of envy, it's good but I feel that GFTE is more useful. If you can spare a skill slot for Anthem of Envy I'd certainly take that one as well.

re: signet of return, if you don't like it you're free to slot something else instead...

Lanier · Dec 14, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

re: bows, if you have ever run Splinter Barrage on a ranger you'd know why that paragon has a bow and not a spear... same base damage, slightly slower attack speed but MUCH more damage and adrenaline if you can hit multiple foes at once with Volley or Barrage... and that isn't too difficult. Try it and you'll see. You can also put Rapid Fire on that paragon for permanent +33% IAS with no armor penalty.

Interesting... well I tried it but to be honest, I have never had the same views as you regarding AoE damage... as I don't really see it as being important enough to lower my single target dps (fairly significantly). Still, it seems to me as though it would be more efficient to have a support character with MoP/Splinter if you want that AoE damage.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 14, 2010, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Interesting... well I tried it but to be honest, I have never had the same views as you regarding AoE damage... as I don't really see it as being important enough to lower my single target dps (fairly significantly). Still, it seems to me as though it would be more efficient to have a support character with MoP/Splinter if you want that AoE damage.

I'm not sure what you mean about getting a support character to do MoP/Splinter, the 4th hero in the Kway build is SoS/Splinter/Orders so this support character is already provided.

re: AoE, the need for it is obvious, and all efficient teams (both past and present) use AoE damage to kill mobs quickly. In the past this was done with Splinter Barrage and Ursan and Cry of Pain, and modern teams include HundredBlades/Whirlwind/Splinter/MarkOfPain, Destructive Was Glaive spam, Ray of Judgment, and more.

All of this is AoE and anything less is sub-optimal, delivering less damage.
Paragons have no AoE damage of any kind and this is why paragons are not desired for anything but SY/TNTF spam, because they are useless for anything but that at present. Denying this reality will not change anything.

Lanier · Dec 14, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I'm not sure what you mean about getting a support character to do MoP/Splinter, the 4th hero in the Kway build is SoS/Splinter/Orders so this support character is already provided.

re: AoE, the need for it is obvious, and all efficient teams (both past and present) use AoE damage to kill mobs quickly. In the past this was done with Splinter Barrage and Ursan and Cry of Pain, and modern teams include HundredBlades/Whirlwind/Splinter/MarkOfPain, Destructive Was Glaive spam, Ray of Judgment, and more.

All of this is AoE and anything less is sub-optimal, delivering less damage.
Paragons have no AoE damage of any kind and this is why paragons are not desired for anything but SY/TNTF spam, because they are useless for anything but that at present. Denying this reality will not change anything.

Oh... you're talking about Speed clears/farms where groups of players mob up balls and spike with DwG, RoJ, or HB + Whirlwind. I was referring to a standard H/H setup where the effectiveness of AoE is diminished due to enemies not being that close that often and moving around fairly often.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 14, 2010, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Oh... you're talking about Speed clears/farms where groups of players mob up balls and spike with DwG, RoJ, or HB + Whirlwind. I was referring to a standard H/H setup where the effectiveness of AoE is diminished due to enemies not being that close that often and moving around fairly often.

Single target damage is for PvP.
In PvE you are much better off with skills that affect multiple targets whether it is a speedclear team or not. I shouldn't have to explain why Death Nova, Splinter Weapon, Mark of Pain, etc. are meta in PvE and yet remain unused in PvP.

This was the core issue in the mesmer update earlier this year... mesmer had great single-target skills, but that is not enough for PvE... thus many of the skills got AoE effects, and mesmers are now quite useful in PvE, for damage or shutdown or both.

Lanier · Dec 14, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

Single target damage is for PvP.
In PvE you are much better off with skills that affect multiple targets whether it is a speedclear team or not. I shouldn't have to explain why Death Nova, Splinter Weapon, Mark of Pain, etc. are meta in PvE and yet remain unused in PvP.

This was the core issue in the mesmer update earlier this year... mesmer had great single-target skills, but that is not enough for PvE... thus many of the skills got AoE effects, and mesmers are now quite useful in PvE, for damage or shutdown or both.

I really don't want to turn this into an argument... but i do feel inclined to respond to this.

While those skills are populer, it is mainly for the large armor ignoring damage that they inflict. How often do enemies ball themselves up in H/H situations? Unless you aggro multiple mobs at once, enemies just arnt close enough to each other to warrent a large drop in single target dps for AoE capabilities. You mention splinter, mop, and death nova but fail to mention Discord, Dragon Slash, AP + EVAS + finish him + Ymlad. Skills like this have a high spiking capability and are used often because of this. It is easy to kill an enemy quickly, move to the next, slaughter him in an instant, move to the next, kill him in an instant, etc. I don't see how you can possibly say that single target damage is only for PvP... Dont get me wrong, AoE is good and all, but its not crucial as you're making it out to be, and I would far rather slot splinter on a hero than sacrifice a serious drop to my single-target dps by bringing a bow with volley on a paragon.

As for the mesmer update, most of the updated skills already did AoE damage before the update. The fast casting and recharge buffs are what made them as useful as they are now. The only skills that I can think of right off hand that had AoE damage added to them were the two signets (unnatural and sig of clumsiness).

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 15, 2010, 04:57 AM // 04:57

For any who doubt the effectiveness of this build, here are screenshots of me running some guildies through Tahnnakai Temple hardmode with it.

No consumables were used, finished in 18:12.
If you think you have a better build, beat that time and prove it.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 15, 2010, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I really don't want to turn this into an argument... but i do feel inclined to respond to this.

While those skills are populer, it is mainly for the large armor ignoring damage that they inflict. How often do enemies ball themselves up in H/H situations? Unless you aggro multiple mobs at once, enemies just arnt close enough to each other to warrent a large drop in single target dps for AoE capabilities. You mention splinter, mop, and death nova but fail to mention Discord, Dragon Slash, AP + EVAS + finish him + Ymlad. Skills like this have a high spiking capability and are used often because of this. It is easy to kill an enemy quickly, move to the next, slaughter him in an instant, move to the next, kill him in an instant, etc. I don't see how you can possibly say that single target damage is only for PvP... Dont get me wrong, AoE is good and all, but its not crucial as you're making it out to be, and I would far rather slot splinter on a hero than sacrifice a serious drop to my single-target dps by bringing a bow with volley on a paragon.

As for the mesmer update, most of the updated skills already did AoE damage before the update. The fast casting and recharge buffs are what made them as useful as they are now. The only skills that I can think of right off hand that had AoE damage added to them were the two signets (unnatural and sig of clumsiness).

1. Stating that a skill is used often does not necessarily mean it's good.

2. A H/H team using AoE will almost always be faster and more efficient than single target, spike builds.

3. It is quite easy to ball up foes enough for AoE without much effort. For example, on a warrior all you have to do is preprot and use Enraging Charge to engage a group (positioning yourself near ranged foes and allow the melee ones to bunch up with them). With the proper heroes, these semi-balled monsters will blow up in about a second.